Curse

Yanman.be · May 20, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Mending has almost the same effect as Otyugh's Cry, only worse...

Da Cebuano · May 20, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Well, You're better off countering the degen w/ a spike heal ie Heal sig, mending @ 3 pips of heal aint gonna go much for you to counter the degens, whereas getting back the hp you lost actually does save your ass. Mending is only good for w/mo runners who have no time to stop and heal. Even then, they stop to use heal sig if dmg is too much. Thing w/ your argument is that its so flawed. Yeah its used to counter degen, but when does the opportunity ever arise so you have mending when you're specifically facing a degen(er)? RA? a w/mo w/ mending facing a degen foe will only slow down his hp sucking death, not very useful, not to mention shatter enchant = more dmg to you + increase degen = gg. Like someone said, -1 ene degen is bad on a warrior, wasting that much energy regen for 3 pip hp regen is a very bad investment. I would support more a Live voraciously w/ tiger stance w/mo than a mending one, even then I prefer to use vigorous spirit over upkeep enchants for enchant heals.

Heal breeze is just that, IMHO its a great pve skill to counter degen, not for healing though. 10 energy is alot, yeah overall you get alot of hp back but its over time. It can be shattered, drained, removed etc.. It can't counter a spike and ultimately much better heals around for the 10 energy.

But like someone said here, for a warrior, its better to prevent dmg than heal it back up slowly. For the skill slot used for mending, you could've brought alot a stance or a defense skill.

I'm not even gonna get into these skills for pvp, just not worth the argument. The only reason people go w/mo in pvp mostly is just that, to be a w/mo, more like a poke fun kind of gesture. These guys never use any monk skills, if you're a warrior, you are a warrior, not a monk. If you're a monk, you'll soon realize that mending at the cost of 1 of your regen pips isn't a skill where you cast on a warrior and then he can leroy it to the guild lord's base and solo all NPCs by himself. Gotta understand that GW is not all about pvp or pve and some skills that are awesome on one aspect is specrapular for another, thats just how it is w/ a hybrid game that revolves around balance.

kvndoom · May 21, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

If you hate Mending, you simply MUST watch War Machine vs Charr Match 3. Oh my, oh my.

rii · May 22, 2006, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

If you hate Mending, you simply MUST watch War Machine vs Charr Match 3. Oh my, oh my.

Yeah, that was pretty amazing when I saw it. At first, I didn't notice the other monk half way up the party bar... and my eyes almost fell out. I was slightly dissapointed to see he was taking the place of the Rt... and his primary function was life bond, not really mending. The 8th monk was using boon signet too, so boon/mending/lifebond on him was pretty dam good. But... why mending. Funny.

jesh · Jun 01, 2006, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pick Me

I agree, its not a heal so much as a counter measure vs health degeneration.

A heal won't counter degen? Tell me what a heal is, if not a counter to damage. That's right, those little arrows on your HP bar pointing to the left are actually damage. 2 damage. Each.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

That's a little too narrow minded. If you know how to set up your attributes and equipment, and know how to manage your energy, Mending can be a help and not a handicap. I can set up my Warrior with 15 Swordsmanship, 9 strength, and 10 Healing, and carry Mending and Live Vicariously and still have energy to use Sprint (which is about the only energy based skill a warrior should have anyway). Superior Vigor rune, +30 always shield and +30 weapon, and you have over 500 health even with the Supe weapon rune. If you only cast LV right before a battle, and carry a vamp sword, you have +2 regen and gain 15 health per hit. Battle Rage or Rush will give you your speed boost in battle. Frenzy isn't much necessary in PVE because of the numbnutz enemy AI. Adrenaline will take care of your spiking needs. Purge Signet takes care of all conditions and hexes at once. Between battles, drop LV and regain your energy. If you really can't manage your energy, then just bring Vigorous Spirit instead.

Yes bring sprint to PvE, god knows we all need more warriors running off into the blue with no team support. Those monks skills are suprisingly worthless compared to the armor skills already in the warrior skill list. For fun I switched my warrior from curses to blood just to see how much steady hp I could get. I reached about 1200 not to mention 195+ armor. Enfeebling blood is still more effective, though. Damage prevented > damage healed.

Mending still sucks.

Keats · Jun 01, 2006, 07:52 AM // 07:52

concerning cooperative pve play: at the current level of pve/pugs/teamplay in cantha I'd say mending and breeze has it's usage on an wamo. energy is a bad argument I'd say - bring a zealous weapon ..

from my point of view there is no "hate" at all, it's just a running gag

..but, having 2 monks in your group, I'd consider to bring damage skills since the best thing to do is .. kill fast! and, if your'e willing to take the damage from rend or shatter - I hope you'll learn from it.

in pvp is just no place for them.

*hugs the poor wamos*

torquemada · Jun 01, 2006, 12:53 PM // 12:53

I had fought 4xFarmWay in TA - Riposites, Dolyaks, all kind of wierd shit.

Almost lost due to ROFL factor.

ak347 · Jun 01, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

read the posts, some things missing:
First, whos a better counter to damage - you or a monk? And what would be a better benefit to that counter - you having 3 pips of healing, or him having another pip of energy AND a pip of healing (cough *succor* cough). Hell, hes more likely to benefit from 3 pips of healin because people even PVE enemies attack monks first. And no, im not saying the monk is casting mending on you, im saying that you should be spending your pip of energy casting enchantments that benefit a squishy MUCH more than yourself.

Second, if you've gone ANYWHERE past kaineng city in cantha, you'll realize that almost every mob has a mesmer or necromancer. Now what does this mean? ANET wanted to nerf farming, so they implemented enchantment removal. Now you're taking 100+ dmg from shatter enchantment or healing necromancers using strip enchantment. And this is before battle has even begun (since wammos are usually the first ones to rush in, they get enchant stripped first). Now how has that helped anyone? You've just fueled the enemy's ability to hurt you. Now, if you're stupid enough to try and maintain this "counter to degen", you stop after the enchant removal, recast meding (taking ANOTHER 10e + 1 pip of e), only to get it shattered again in the next 15 seconds. Congratulations, go uninstall.

O, and when is the last time you have bled to death. Or even been poisoned to death. The only time degen is a major factor is when its stacked, and when its stacked, 3 measly pips is as effective as that bleeding was at killing you.
And give up the argument of a counter to vamp weapons. Get a weapon switch. Even a white weapon is better than mending.

Mending is acceptable on 3 conditions - farming, running, and beginners.
You want a counter to poison? Bring I Will Survive or Plague Touch and ViM.

Ensign · Jun 01, 2006, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Mending has a bad reputation because it's used by bad players in places it has no business being used.

To get it out of the way, Mending is *not* a bad skill. It has a couple of important things going for it:

It is energy efficient healing. Once you take away the initial cost (which can be regenerated pre-combat), the skill returns 18 health per energy at 8 spec, and 24 health per energy at 13 spec. For comparison, Orison of Healing, at 16/13 Healing/Divine, gives back 23 health per energy.

It is incredibly time efficient healing. 6/8 healing per second isn't a lot, but it's also healing that comes without you doing a thing. Mending makes a character who's busy but can spare some energy more efficient.

At the same time it has several issues:

Mending is going to cost you energy whether it is healing you or not. If you are at full health with Mending up you are simply wasting energy. Sitting at full even some of the time will make Mending a very poor investment of energy.

Mending is inflexible. You have to commit it to a particular character, and if the damage ends up on someone else that's just too bad. The skill has to sit there passively to be effective - if you're moving it around the energy and time efficiency of mending becomes terrible.

Mending is very slow to act. A lot of the time the damage that ends up killing you will come in the timeframe of a couple of seconds. Mending will have only returned a couple dozen hit points and effectively was energy spent on nothing.

Mending is very poor if it is being removed. Consequence of the above - it is slow to act, and the cast time/cost need to be negligible for it to be efficient. If it's being pulled it turns into garbage.

Mending is very good in situations where the damage is slow and predictable. If you're a solo warrior it's the best heal you can take - they have to target you, it's efficient, and doesn't require you to stop attacking. Similarly the skill is important for running.

It's also not bad in the way that War Machine used it. They were worried about spread degen from Char - slow, predictable damage - and brough Mending to help relieve the pressure. Mending actually becomes very efficient healing with Blessed Signet - the signet returns 3 energy for every 4 lost to the pip, giving Mending an energy efficiency of 96 health per energy under perfect use. With Mantra of Inscriptions, maintaining that Mending actually nets you some energy.

Granted, other enchantments have a larger effect on the battle than a few pips on one person. But just because the vast majority of its PvP use is from warriors casting it on themselves in random arena and never getting attacked doesn't mean that you need to ignore the skill completely. It has some substantial drawbacks, but if those aren't relevant and the strengths are, why not?

Peace,
-CxE

Jetdoc · Jun 01, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Man, I really enjoy reading Ensign's posts. Extremely articulate as to the strengths of Mending (especially for my solo warrior) and the downsides, especially in PvP.

Mending in group PvE also isn't all that bad, as most of the time, as a W/Mo, you are responsible for drawing and maintaining the aggro, which means that you SHOULD be attacked almost constantly when the energy really matters. But again, as Ensign said, if you are going into an area where you know it will be stripped, then it's a wasted skill on your skillbar.

Mr D J · Jun 01, 2006, 08:32 PM // 20:32

1 energy regen is not worth 6 health per second.

jummeth · Jun 02, 2006, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Apart from solo farming (which I take LV) its pretty much useless anywhere else. I have yet to see 1 W/Mo cast mending on the Monk in any situation.

If I see mending on a war in PvP, I am happy because I know I don't have to disrupt his HealSig or his weapon mastery is not max. My Evis+exe and my normal hits will happily see his mended hp drop.

In PvE, in all honesty, especially if you got 2 monks, there should be some protection spells cast and also any degens can easily be out healed. Its the spikes you have to watch for and mending does nothing for that.

A LT necro also laughs at your measily 3 regen since they can put enough degen on you so that HB + Mending can still keep you at -10 degen. How do you counter LT? you do spike heals. Heck a HealSig is enough to counter the degen. What normally kills you is the life steals/shadow damage that hits you afterwards

Let me just argue why live vicariously is better in solo farming than mending if you are using weapons to kill. [Fair enough, for a riposte/glads stancer mending is more appropriate]
Using LV at same heal prayer levels heals the same ammount of heal as mending if you are hiting one enemy. However, factor in skills like cyclone axe , 100 blades(who uses this to farm?!), triple chop. Your heal rate rises disproportionately.

jesh · Jun 02, 2006, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Mending has a bad reputation because it's used by bad players in places it has no business being used.

To get it out of the way, Mending is *not* a bad skill. It has a couple of important things going for it:

I think the general conscensus is that mending is not good in pvp. Part of your post here at least insinuates that it's decent for pve.

Would you personally rather a warrior on your team take mending than another skill, say.. dolyak signet, on just an average mission? I would think that a skill already in the warrior line, like dolyak or watch yourself! would be much more effecient than dumping points into a skill like mending, wouldn't you?

Of course I'm very bad at math, but I'd love to see the difference between a few skills like that compared logically.

JiggyFly · Jun 02, 2006, 07:03 AM // 07:03

I don't see how you assume mending is a replacement to Dolyak signet or Watch yourself! they're not the same at all.

Its a passive spell so really it's not just 6 health per second. For example say you use healing signet thats 2 seconds of you standing there using healing signet and nothing else. With mending up that would be 2 seconds of mending plus whatever else you were able to do in that 2 seconds.

But like others pointed out it's extremely efficient when it is cast before battle, and kept up. But if it starts getting removed that's when it becomes garbage because there's better things that can be done with that time and energy.

Jetdoc · Jun 02, 2006, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

IWould you personally rather a warrior on your team take mending than another skill, say.. dolyak signet, on just an average mission? I would think that a skill already in the warrior line, like dolyak or watch yourself! would be much more effecient than dumping points into a skill like mending, wouldn't you?

Use all of the above <dunno>

llsektorll · Jun 02, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Real Roy Keane

It seems you have little experience in high level PvP, Senator Tom.

ahem... i have two things to say about tom... and mending...

1st... TOM IS NOT I REPEAT NOT a PvPer he is PvE Farmer...
Infact tom after you left the guild we reached top100... flawlessed IE, Negative Zero, beat Alice in Wonderland, Boondocks, Rank 3 PUGS and many others.

2ndly Tom, last I herd you ware an advocate for mending... to the extent that your charecters name is MENDING DRAGON ONE..

im confused at this hypocrisy tom...

Imp · Jun 02, 2006, 09:05 PM // 21:05

because when a wammo puts mending on him self, he automatically asumes he is god.

Senator Tom · Jun 03, 2006, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by llsektorll

ahem... i have two things to say about tom... and mending...

1st... TOM IS NOT I REPEAT NOT a PvPer he is PvE Farmer...
Infact tom after you left the guild we reached top100... flawlessed IE, Negative Zero, beat Alice in Wonderland, Boondocks, Rank 3 PUGS and many others.

this isnt the show off thread eternal. also i do enjoy the occasional pvp, im just not a hardcore pvper, and farming is not the only thing i do in pve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by llsektorll

2ndly Tom, last I herd you ware an advocate for mending... to the extent that your charecters name is MENDING DRAGON ONE..

im confused at this hypocrisy tom...

also, this thread isnt about me, its about mending.

ender6 · Jun 03, 2006, 01:14 AM // 01:14

In an attempt to get back on track...

I PvP often, and when I decide to head into RA I always cringe when I see a warrior on my team cast mending. I monk. Therefore I want people that can cause dmg, not those that can tank. Further, I'm not saying that Mending itself is per say bad, but in attempt to answer the question on your post:Why the mending hate?

I'm sure if you are running, or if you are tanking it is quite beneficial, but of course who would give you any grief in those situations? I assume you must be refering to PvP when you mention Mending hate.

Of course if someone throws on Mending it does not necessarly imply that it is a bad build, it is just, if you PvP alot, the countless times I have seen a match grind to a halt because everyone has made certain that they can sustain dmg rather than deal it, well it is simply frustrating. LOL- in many way Mending is the gateway enchant to a boring build.

Senator Tom · Jun 03, 2006, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ender6

In an attempt to get back on track...

I PvP often, and when I decide to head into RA I always cringe when I see a warrior on my team cast mending. I monk. Therefore I want people that can cause dmg, not those that can tank. Further, I'm not saying that Mending itself is per say bad, but in attempt to answer the question on your post:Why the mending hate?

I'm sure if you are running, or if you are tanking it is quite beneficial, but of course who would give you any grief in those situations? I assume you must be refering to PvP when you mention Mending hate.

Of course if someone throws on Mending it does not necessarly imply that it is a bad build, it is just, if you PvP alot, the countless times I have seen a match grind to a halt because everyone has made certain that they can sustain dmg rather than deal it, well it is simply frustrating. LOL- in many way Mending is the gateway enchant to a boring build.

im not talking about pvp at all, i think mending is completely a waste of a skill slot in pvp. in pve i dont understand why most consider mending as bad. i think most of it is just based on the assumption that every w/mo who uses mending is just a stereotype warrior that doesnt know how to hold agro or kill effectively.